Shri Vyasa Bhajana Mandali (SVBM), California, USA has formed a forum to discuss various Tatvavada topics. To start with, the members have selected MUST KNOW-HIGHLY DEBATED topic of Jiva Kartrutva & Datta Svatantrya. As part of this study the members will be walking through material that is available on this topic, will be arranging Lectures from revered Scholars, etc.
Please visit this page for regular updates from time to time.
Reason behind the forum :
Few members of SVBM were having an informal discussion - A Fact Finding Quest - on the most sought after subject of Jiva Kartrutva. On those lines they arranged lectures of Shri Hari Narayana Vittala Dasa & were also referring to Vyakhyana of specific padyas of Shri Harikathamrutasara by Shri Sankarshana Wodeya Swamiji.
That said, most of the members still had many unanswered questions which required an exercise that would enable them to dig deeper into the subject thereby attaining some level of clarity. With that in mind, the Jiva Kartrutva (JK) forum was initiated.
The intent to create this forum was formally announced on 23rd March, 2008, the auspicious day when SVBM celebrated the Aradhana mahOtsava of great yatis (such as Shri Dheerendra Teertha Swamiji, Shri Satyabodha Teertha Swamiji, Shri Vyasa Teertha Swamiji, Shri Vadiraja Teertha Swamiji, Shri Sudheendra Teertha, Shri Govinda Wodeya Swamiji, Shri Uddanda Ramachandra Teertha Swamiji, Shri Ramachandra Teertha Swamiji, Shri Vijayanidhi Teertha Swamiji). .
Required Preparation for Session #1
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Lectures on DS/SvS/SaS by Shri Suvidyendra Teertha Swamiji on Madhva Radio
Listen
Download
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Lecture 1 (Datta Svatantrya Sandhi begins at minute 9:30 in audio player)
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Lecture 2
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Lecture 3
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Lecture 4
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Lecture 5
Note:
Shri Harikathamrutasara lectures by Shri Suvidyendra Teertha Swamiji are available on MadhvaRadio.org. Please login and click on "Discourse on Sri HarikathamrutasAra By HH Sri 1008 Sri Suvidyendra Tirtha Swamiji" to listen to next set of lectures on Sarva Svatantrya Sandhi in particular and other Sandhi's in general.
For the benefit of listeners and for their easy access, we are providing links of lectures from Madhva Radio here. SVBM is greatly indebted to Madhva Radio team
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Lectures on JK & Karma:by Shri Sanjeeva Murthy Dasaru on Madhva Radio
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Lecture 1 (Lectures of Shri Sanjeeva Murthy Dasaru starts at 1:15:48 in Lecture 1 audio player. For 1 hr 15 mts, we find the lecture of Shri Vyasanakere Prabhanjanacharya)
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Lecture 2
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Lecture 3
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Lecture 4
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Lecture 5
Note:
Lectures of Shri Sanjeeva Murthy Dasaru are available on MadhvaRadio.org. Please login and click on "Complete Bhagavatha Pravahcana Maalike by various Yathis and Scholars arranged by Sadvichara Trust, Bangalore" to listen to these lectures.
For the benefit of listeners and for their easy access, we are providing links of lectures from Madhva Radio here. SVBM is greatly indebted to Madhva Radio team
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Lectures on JK by Shri Hari Narayana Vittala Dasa
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Lecture 1
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Lecture 2
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Lecture 3
Brief Introduction to Jiva Kartrutva & Datta Svatantrya:
There are only 2 tatvas in the universe : svatantra & asvatantra (svatantram asvatantram cha dvividham tatvamiShyatE - tatva sankhyAna)
Shri Hari alone is svatantra tatva and all others including His consort Maha Lakshmi belong to asvatantra tatva (svatantrO bhagavAn viShNu: - tatva sankhyAna)
Asvatantra tatva's
Maha Lakshmi (aKShara)
Jiva's (mukta's-amukta's-asRujya's)
Jada
Kartrutva is defined as combination of Jnana, Ichcha and Kriya shakti
Shri Hari alone is svatantra karta
sahi sarvasya kartA - He alone is karta
tEna vinA tRuNamapi na chalati - Without Him even a blade of grass cannot move
kartRutvam prati svAtantryam - The one who is Self-dependent (svatantra) is the karta
None of the above attributes apply to Maha Lakshmi, Jiva or Jada. Hence they are not Self-dependent (svatantra) karta's
Kriya is an activity and Kriya Shakti is ability to do an activity. An object where Kriya is found is termed Kartru
Jada has Kriya but it does not have Kriya Shakti. Hence Jada is also referred as Kartru (Parama amukya kartRu - This kriya is not worthy of mentioning).
A jIva has Jnana, Ichcha and Kriya shakti inherently from anadi. jIva svarUpa/jIva svabhAva/svarUpa Deha all refer to jIva. Since jIva has Kriya shakti, Jiva is also referred as Kartru
Jnana, Ichcha and Kriya Shakti of Jiva are totally dependent on Shri Hari. Hence Jiva's Kartrutva is considered as Paradhina Kartrutva
pratibiMba kriyAyA: biMba kriyAnusyUtatA - yadAshnAti tadAshnAti yadA vakti tadaiva sa: - kimatra bahunOktEna nA akRutaM kriyatE janai: (shAndilya tatva) - The kriya (activity) of pratibimba is as per (anusyUtata) bimba kriya. If bimba eats, pratibimba eats: If bimba talks, pratibimba talks: What more, pratibimba cannot do anything which bimba does not do
There are Shastra Vakyas where jIva is referred as akartRu. Jiva is so much dependent on Shri Hari that the kartRutva of jIva is highly insignificant - to such an extent that jIva is referred as akartRu (Similar to Jada, this Kriya is not worthy of mentioning - But interestingly Jiva is not Jada)
In scriptures like Shri Vishnu Rahasya, Suladis of Shri Vijaya Dasa & Shri Harikathamrutasara (Datta svAtantraya Sandhi) there are references of Shri Hari distributing His gunas (qualities) to jIvas. If one dives deeper into the subject, one gets to know the following:
"mayaiva dattaM svAtantryam kEvalEShvapi karmasu - tAvanmAtrENa sammugdhA: svAtantryaM manyatE nijam - svAtantryE apahRutE pashchAjjAnaMti paratantratAM (shAndilya tatva) " - I (Shri Hari) have given svAtantrya to Jiva's to perform karma (activity/action). Just because of this, Jiva thinks performing action/activity is his self-dependent capability. If I take back the given svAtantrya then Jiva gets to know his/her dependence
What does it mean by Shri Hari giving His svAtantrya?
A single guNa of Shri Hari is capable of performing all that what ananta guNa’s of Shri Hari will be capable of
Shri Hari will not lend His guNa’s to Maha Lakshmi or any jIva. If you claim this then we are no better than mAyAvAdis
"datta svAtantrya nAmnA vai harErIshEna sarvadA - prErita: karma kurvANO na mE shakti: kaThaMchana - prakAsha saMhita" - Shri Hari, who is Isha, with His datta svAtantrya Rupa is making me do all the activities - There is absolutely no involvement of my shakti
"tatra tatra sthitO viShNu: tattatchchaktI: prabOdhayan - Eka Eva mahA shakti: kurutE sarva maMjasA - sUtra bhaShya" - Shri Hari being in each object (Maha Lakshmi, Jiva, Jada) stimulates the power (shakti) of each. He alone is maha shakti (super power)
"kartRutvam karaNatvam cha svabhAvashchEtanA dhruti: - yatprasAdAdimE saMti na saMti yadupEkShayA" -
tathA cha svAtantrya dAnaM nAma tadrUpENa jIva pravEsha: - svagata svAtanrya datta svAtantrya rUpa dvayaM harErEva - chalAri AchArya" - 'svAtantrya dAna' means Shri Hari entering into Jiva with that (svAtantrya) Rupa. svagata svAtantrya & datta svAtantrya Rupa's are 2 Rupa's of Shri Hari
datta svAtantrya, svagata svAtantrya & sarva svAtantrya are guNa’s of Shri Hari similar to infinite guNa-rUpa of His with which He enters into jIva during sRuShti kAla to carry out sAdhana on behalf of jIva.
datta svAtantrya guNa (As per Shri Harikathamrutasara vyAkhyAna of Shri SankarShana Wodeya Swamiji & tatvasuvvali vyAkhyAna of Shri Davanagere Bheema Rayaru):
Shri Hari from His infinite datta svAtantrya guNas picked up 400 guNas.
Following table shows the count of datta svAtantrya guNas with which Shri Hari entered into Maha Lakshmi & Jivas.
S.No.
In Whom
No. of Gunas
1.
Kept to Himself
132.75
2.
Lakshmi
67.25
3.
Brahma
52
4.
Vayu
48
5.
Rudra
20
6.
Indra/Kama
15
7.
Tatvabhimani Devata's
10
8.
Satvika Jiva's
10
9.
Rajo & Tamo Jivas
45
Total
400
Note:
Count of 400 & its distribution (please read it as Shri Hari's pravesha) is just a numeric number to explain the concept
Since Shri Hari entered Brahma with 52 guNas, it does not mean that Shri Hari requires 4 extra guNa's compared to what He requires for vAyu to perform activity in Brahma. As already explained, Shri’s single guNa is capable of performing all the kAryas in this universe. The count only shows the yOgyata of the jIva and in no way demean the capabilities of Shri Hari. The numerology also explains the yOgyata of Jiva's.
Few intersting points to be noted from above table:
Ruju's after Vayu (198 in total starting from lAtavya to Ruju Devata 1 who are already in sAdhana stage), garuDa, shESha and all the garuDa/shESha yogyata jIvas who are already in sAdhana stage (few tatvavAda thinkers say there will be 100 such garuDa/shESha yogyata jIvas and few others claim the count to be 80) except Rudra since Rudra is already covered in the above list, indra/kAma yogyata jIvas who are already in sAdhana stage (count of 20 for indra & kAma excluding indra & kAma since they are covered in the above table) are not mentioned in the above list. So does that mean they can perform activities independent of Shri Hari's datta/svagata/sarva svAtantrya Rupas?Absolutely NO. The numbers above are just 'sAnkEtika'. Shri Hari during sRuShti enters each jIva that has come into existence with His svAtantrya Rupas to activate the Jnana, Ichcha, Kriya Shakti of Jiva. Without Him, jIva on its own cannot do anything.
vAyu pada jIva occupies Brahma pada in next Brahma kalpa. As such there is no yOgyata difference between Brahma pada jIva & vAyu pada jIva. But the above table shows a difference of 4 guNas. Once again this difference is to show biMba darshana tArataMya. vAyu pada jIva's Jnana, Bhakti & other guNas are exactly similar to that of Brahma pada jIva but there is tArataMya in biMba darshana. Brahma will have little more clarity than vAyu ("j~jAna bhaktyAdyakhiLa guNa chaturAnananoLippaMte mukhya prANanali chiMtipudu, yatkiMchit koreteyAgi" - Shri Jagannatha Dasaru - AparOxa tArataMya Sandhi - Padya 37 - Shri Harikathamrutasara). To show this difference due to 1 extra kalpa sAdhana of Brahma, Brahma has 4 extra guNas than vAyu.
As per Shri Suvidyendra Teertha Swamiji's lecture, the above count can also be considered as sannidhAna of Shri Hari in all the asvatantra's. Shri Hari's sannidhana is more in Lakshmi, followed by Brahma, vAyu, etc.
svagata svAtantrya guNa (As per Shri Harikathamrutasara vyAkhyAna of Shri SankarShana Wodeya Swamiji & tatvasuvvali vyAkhyAna of Shri Davanagere Bheema Rayaru):
Shri Hari from His 132.75 datta svAtantrya guNas picked up 1 guNa (this guNa is called svagata), divided it into 4 parts, then further dividied these 4 guNas into 10 parts each taking the total count to 40.
Following table shows the count of svagata svAtantrya guNas with which Shri Hari entered into Maha Lakshmi & Jiva
S.No.
In Whom
No. of Gunas
1.
Kept to Himself
13.275
2.
Lakshmi
6.725
3.
Brahma
5.25
4.
Vayu
4.75
5.
Rudra
2
6.
Indra/Kama
1.5
7.
Tatvabhimani Devata's
1
8.
Satvika Jiva's
1
9.
Rajo & Tamo Jivas
4.5
Total
40
Note:
The details provided under 'Note"' of datta svAtantrya section also applies here
sarva svAtantrya guNa (As per Shri Harikathamrutasara vyAkhyAna of Shri SankarShana Wodeya Swamiji):
Shri Hari from His 131.75 datta svAtantrya guNas (1 guNa is termed svagata as explained in above section) picked up 1 guNa (this guNa is called sarva).
Shri Hari makes this 1 guNa into 2 (1/2 & 1/2).
He picks up 1 part of 2 (1/2) and divides this guNa into 2 (1/4 & 1/4)
He picks up 1 part of 2 (1/4) guNa and divides it into 4 (1/16, 1/16, 1/16, 1/16)
He picks part 1 of 4 (1/16) and divides that into 100. This hundred is distributed among Brahma & Vayu
He picks part 2 of 4 (1/16) and divides that into 100. This hundred is distributed among Rudra, Indra-Kama, tatvAbhimAni's, Satvika Jivas, Rajo & Tamo Jivas
Now Shri Hari divides the remaining guNas (shown in red - 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/16 + 1/16) and makes them as a unit of 2.
Shri Hari keeps 2/3rd with Self and 1/3rd with Lakshmi
Following table shows the count of svagata svAtantrya guNas with which Shri Hari entered into Maha Lakshmi & Jiva
S.No.
In Whom
No. of Gunas
1.
Kept to Himself
2.
Lakshmi
3.
Brahma
52
4.
Vayu
48
5.
Rudra
20
6.
Indra/Kama
15
7.
Tatvabhimani Devata's
10
8.
Satvika Jiva's
10
9.
Rajo & Tamo Jivas
45
Note:
The details provided under 'Note"' of datta svAtantrya section also applies here
Week 1: 29th March, 2008 ::
The 1st session was a great success as there was an enthusiastic crowd (with around 12 in person and 4 on the phone). We were blessed to have Anand Krishnan's uncle on site who has been a staunch follower of Shrimad Acharyaru & has read cover-to-cover all books of Shri BNK Sharma.
As per the plan, Prasanna Krishna went over 2 padyas from Tatvasuvvali through the Vyakhyana of Shri Davanagere Bheema RaoJi:
enna - me (one who did as you made me do through tatvAbhimAni dEvatas)
drOhakke gurimALpe - you entangle me with karma (karma bandha)
As instructed by You, tatvAbhimAni dEvatas are doing the activities through me without my involvement. This being the case, you entangle me with karma phala
elli Ishatva - Where there is Ishatva (svAtantrya, svatantra niyAmakatva Dharma)
matte alli ihudu kartRutva - Only there exists kartRutva
hullu manujarige - Incapable humans (referred to jIva's who are asvatantra's)
kartRutvavu eMbudu ellihudu - Where is kartRutva for such jIva's? (It is not there)
baride apavAda - Its just a wrong perception
As mentioned in pANini sutras "kartRutvam prati svAtantryam" - "svatantra: kartA", a person who is self-dependent (svatantra) will only have kartRutva, others wouldn't have. Shri Hari alone is svatantra and all others are asvatantras. Hence claiming kartRutva in jIvas is a wrong perception/thinking.
During the 1st session, VRP had a question as to "whether jaDa can be considered a kartRu". The simple answer to that is "yes" but it’s not very easy to perceive it. Shri Bannanje Govindacharya explains this concept beautifully taking the example of a cow's udder (jada). He poses the question of "where does milk come from?" and provides a 3-fold answer:
It comes from the udder and since this has an action associated with it, you could say a jaDa is kartRu. But we all know it's absurd since it alone cannot do anything (Shri Acharya calls it parama amukhya kartRu)
If you take it to next level, one would say it's not the udder but it's the cow providing the milk. This makes worldly sense but not true in tatvavAda (Shri Acharya calls it amukhya kartRu)
Finally, he says that Shri Hari presiding within the cow is doing the job and only HE holds complete control and He alone is REAL kartRu
Note: SVBM is greatly indebted to Shri Bannaje Govindacharya & creators of that audio recording.
Required Preparation for session #2
We will be talking about DS (Datta Svatantra), SWS (Swagatha Svatantra) & SAS (Sarvatantra Svatantra).
Week 2: 5th April, 2008 ::
The 2nd session on the evening of 5th April, 2008 was well attended again by around 15 participants in total. Prasanna started with a recap of what was discussed in the previous session (shloka 240 from tatvasuvAli) and then continued with the details of Svagata Svatantrya & Sarva Svatantrya. The Vyakhyana for Padya 240 was completely read out. He also noted that Shri Sankarshana Wodeya Swamiji's Vyakhyana on Shri Harikathamrutasara and Shri Davanagere Bheema Raoji's Vyakhyana on Tatvasuvvali recognsize Shri Hari's Svatantrya Rupa's - Datta, Svagata, Sarva - as separate and co-existent in Jiva during Srushti whereas Shri Suvidyendra Teertha Swamiji's lecture (Please refer Madhva Radio links above) claim only one Rupa instead of 3.
The same night (Night of 5th April, 2008), Shri Sanjeeva Murthy Dasaru - an authority on Shri Harikathamrutasara, Dasa Sahitya, Shrimad Bhagavata among others - delivered a lecture on Jiva Kartrutva from India over phone. It was in fact a question/answer session which was very well attended by interested participants. We are greatly indebted to Shri Sanjeeva Murthy Dasaru who took time to get on phone, gave a patience listening to our questions and answered them to the satisfaction of participants. Towards the end of pravachana, Shri Dasaru whole-heartedly blessed the participants and prayed Lord Shri Hari & His Dasas to help participants understand the Jiva Kartrutva and related topics.
During the evening session, few questions were asked. Prasanna Krishna answered them to the best of his ability and suggested that the answers be validated from correct sources.
Question 1 (From Srikanth): When will Shri Hari in the form of datta, svagata, sarva svatantrya rupa's enter Jiva? Is it when Jiva is brought from asRujya to sRujya or during SruShti.
Answer (From Prasanna): Probably it is during SruShti (i.e. when Vayu pada Jiva gets to Brahma pada). Let us consider a Jiva 'X' who has 10 Brahma Kalpa Sadhana. When this Jiva is brought out of asRujya into sRujya (Kalpa 1 Sadhana), Shri Hari in His 3 forms enter 'X'. During Pralaya, except for Jiva's Svarupa-gata-Bimba, all other Rupas of Shri Hari like Rama, Krishna, Narasimha, etc. including the dattta/svagata/sarva must merge with Moola Rupa. Again during the SruShti, Shri Hari takes Ananta Rupa's and at that time once again Shri Hari with His 3 forms enter 'X' (Kalpa 2 Sadhana of Jiva 'X').
Clarifications to be sought from learned members/scholars. Further questions like what about Shri Hari Rupa's in Linga Deha?
Question 2 (From Srikanth): During SruShti, is the Jiva necessarily brought from asRujya to sRujya?
Answer (From Prasanna): Not really. A Jiva having more than 1 Kalpa Sadhana will come to SruShti those many times. Start of Brahma's first year is termed SruShti and completion of Brahma's life span is termed Laya. Some say Laya starts around Brahma's 75th year and some say Laya starts after Brahma's 100 years. Keeping that aside, during Laya, all the Jiva's (Muktas, those in asRujya, those who are yet to complete their Sadhana, etc) enter Shri Narayana's Udara. During SruShti, Shri Narayana will
get those who already were out from asRujya (already bound by Linga Deha) in previous Brahma Kalpas for their further Sadhana and
get a bunch of Jiva's who are yet to start their Sadhana (from asRujya to sRujya through Linga Deha upachaya)
Question 3 (From Balu): Term Laya cannot be used for Shri Hari. The point came up when Prasanna at one point while explaining about Laya mentioned 'Laya' instead of 'aikya' for Shri Narayana's Rupas.
Answer (From Prasanna): Prasanna argued that it can be mentioned but later during self analysis felt it probably should not be used. The correct sentence could be 'Shri Hari's Ananta Rupa's get merged into Moola Rupa during Laya'. Need to get clarifications from learned members/scholars.
Question 4 (From Mohan): Does Shri Hari enter into Jiva with His 3 forms only when a Jiva gets Human birth?
Answer (From Prasanna): No. Shri Hari's Rupa enter a Jiva during SruShti since Shri Hari in those 3 forms (and many other forms too) is doing Sadhana on behalf of Jiva (mAdhavane mannAma dharisi mADuve sAdhanava - Shri Jayesha Vittala Dasaru). Sadhana is not just restricted to Human being. Sadhana is a way of buring karma and this happens during any birth. Also any activity found in any species is because of Shri Hari's different forms.
Question 5 (General): What is Kartrutva?
Answer (From Prasanna): Kartrutva does not just refer to kriya shakti. It is the combination of Jnana, Ichcha & Kriya Shakti.
Question 6 (General) What is the difference between Kriya & Kriya Shakti?
Answer (From Prasanna): Kriya is an activity and Kriya Shakti is ability to do an activity. A object where there is Kriya is considered kartRu. In this perspective, jaDa also can be termed as kartRu
Question 7 (Harish): The phrase 'yadA snAti tadA snAti' is from which grantha?
Answer (From Prasanna): Shandilya Tatva
Question 8: It is said that a Jiva in Mukti can take any form (though Jiva belongs to a specific Species)? Is it because of Shri Hari.
Question 9: What kind of SruShti does Tatvavada preach (Evolution or Instant)?
Answer (From Prasanna): Evolution
During the session, while discussing about the role of Jiva in SruShti, Prasanna referred to a padya from 'bimbAparOkSha' or 'bimba-pratibimba" sandhi from Shri Harikathamrutasara:
turiya (bliss with knowledge - samAdhi - which can be attained through sAdhana)
The above 4 applies to Sthula Deha. From svarUpa Deha pespective too, there are 4 states. This is what Shri Jagannatha Dasaru explains in the above padya:
the biMba of mukta's is known as turiya (bliss with knowledge)
the biMba of jIvanmukta's (those who came into sRuShti, had their aparOkSha, completed their prArabdha & waiting to get to mukti - In the waiting room till Brahma gets them do viraja snAna) is known as vishva (awaken state)
the biMba of bhava saMsakta's is known as taijasa (dream state)
the biMba of asRujya jIva's is known as prAj~na (deep sleep state)
This explains the following:
Entire sRuShti (excluding jIvanmukta stage) is svapnAvasta for jIva
During svapnAvasta only Manas will be active and all other indriyas will be inactive.
jIva's svarUpEndriya's are not active during this stage (sRuShti stage).
The way dreams (svapna) are not under our control (as we know through our experience), the activities that happen through jaDa Deha during sRuShti are not under jIva's control
Jiva is just an observer of the happenings the way we observe in our dreams
Required Preparation for session #3 (Date: 20th April, 2008)
We will continue with details of DS (Datta Svatantra), SWS (Swagatha Svatantra) & SAS (Sarvatantra Svatantra) from Shri Sankarshana Wodeya Swamiji's Vyakhyana of Shri Harikathamrutasara for Datta & Svagata Svatantrya Sandhi's.
Week 3: 20th April, 2008 ::
During the 3rd Session, Prasanna continued with discussing further on 3 svAtantrya's of Shri Hari as laid out in the vyAkhyAna of Shri Sankarshana Wodeya Swamiji. Shri Sankarshana Wodeya Swamiji while discussing about Padya 5 of svagata svAtantrya Sandhi provides many important aspects of datta-svagata-sarva svAtantrya's. The details are as follows:
svAtantrya's are of 3 kinds - datta, svagata & sarva
In each of these 3 kinds, each other exist in different ratios (prAchurya-aprAchurya)
In datta svAtantrya, the ratio of datta svAtantrya is more (prAchurya - i.e. intensity is more - i.e. Shri Hari projects more of datta svAtantrya rUpa) and the ratio of svagata & sarva are less (aprAchurya)
Similarly in svagata, the ratio of svagata is more compared to datta & sarva
Similarly in sarva, the ratio of sarva is more compared to datta & svagata
The kArya of datta svAtantrya is during jIva's apakva stage (when jIva is entangled with AHAM-MAMA)
The kArya of svagata svAtantrya is during jIva's pakva-apakva stage.
The kArya of sarva svAtantrya is during jIva's pakva stage (when jIva attributes everything to Shri Hari).
As an example, Shri Sankarshana Wodeya Swamiji talks about apakva stage of a jIva:
Shri Hari through His datta svAtantrya guNa/rUpa, based on jIva's anAdi karma-svarUpa yOgyata-linga upAdAna, activates ariShaDvarga's through JnAnEndriya's & KarmEndriya's thus activating Jnana-Ichcha-Kriya.
During this step, with datta svAtantrya rUpa if svagata svAtantrya guNa (which is present in datta svAtantrya guNa in lesser ratio) of Shri Hari gets clubbled then Kriya's result will be positive.
If svagata svAtantrya guNa does not get clubbed then though the Kriya was 100% as per rule book, the result will be negative.
If svagata svAtantrya guNa gets clubbed but not completely (50-50) then the result will be between positive & negative (neither 100% negative nor 100% positive).
During this step, if sarva svAtantrya guNa (which is present in datta svAtantrya guNa in lesser ratio) gets clubbed with datta svAtantrya & svagata svAtantrya then sucess of Kriya gets attributed to dEvata ArAdhana.
Also during this step, if satva guNa is prAchurya then there will be dhairya, if rajO guNa is prAchurya then there will be dhairya-adhairya, if tamO guNa is prAchurya then there will be adhairya
During pure apakva dasha, "dukha-adhairya-negative results" will be very pre-dominant
If a graph is plotted for jIva with X-Axis as "Time" and "Y-Axis" as percentage of "dukha-ajnAna-Negative Results-adhairya" (-100% to +100% where +100% is Ananda-jnAna-Positive Results-dhairya) in accordance with Shri Hari's varying intensity of His datta-svagata-sarva svAtantrya's over time based on jIva svabhAva-anAdi karma-Linga upAdana (Project Plan), we tend to see that gradually jIva gets purified of all impurities (anAdi karma, Linga sharIra, etc) and jIva keeps moving closer to Shri Hari.
Required Preparation for session #4 (Date: 2nd May, 2008)
Starting this session, Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri, a well known scholar in US and a great contributor on dvaita list will be covering kartrutva-adhikaraNa from Brahma Sutra of Shri Veda Vyasa quoting from Acharya Madhwa's Bhashya and other commentaries of Tatvavada stalwarts like Shri Teekacharya, Shri Vadiraja Teertha, Shri Chandrikacharya, Shri Raghoottama Teertha, Shri Raghavendra Teertha. This will be telephonic and the conference call details are given hereunder:
have been made available here. We are very thankful to Shri Venkatesh Mutalik who provided us these documents. Please click hereto download the same.
Week 4: 2nd May, 2008 ::
During the 4th Session, Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri started off with kartRutvAdhikaranaM of Shri Brahmasutra quoting from Acharya Madhwa's Bhashya and tIka & tippaNi of Shri Acharya's followers. This was the first part of kartRutvAdhikaranaM and would continue for next few weeks. Please visit this page for more updates. This session and the following few on this subject will be through conference facility. This session was well attended by interested participants. For the benefit of sAdhakas, the session is uploaded here.
Please click here to read the Q & A session - Shri Venkatesh Mutalik of East Coast, USA has kindly accepted our request to document Q & A session at the end of each session. The above link provides the first Q & A session that followed Part 1 lecture of kartRutvAdhikaraNaM.
Week 5: 10th May, 2008 ::
During the 5th Session - 2nd class of kartRutvAdhikaraNaM, Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri covered the 1st sutra of kartRutvAdhikaranaM quoting from Shri Raghoottama Teertha & Shri Raghavendra Teertha's works. With this, the first sutra is completed. The session was kind of interactive towards the end where Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri gave a chance to participants to ask questions. He provided convincing answers to the questions of participants..
During the 6th Session - 3rd class of kartRutvAdhikaraNaM, Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri covered sutra's 2, 3 & 4 of kartRutvAdhikaranaM quoting from Teekas, Tippanis of Maha Jnanis. The session was kind of interactive towards the end where Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri gave a chance to participants to ask questions. He provided convincing answers to the questions of participants..
During the 7th Session - 4th class of kartRutvAdhikaraNaM, Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri covered sutra's 4 & 5 of kartRutvAdhikaranaM quoting from Teekas, Tippanis of Shri Trivikrama Pandita, Shri Teekacharya, Shri Vadiraja Teertha & Shri Raghavendra Teertha. The session was kind of interactive towards the end where Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri gave a chance for participants to ask questions. He provided convincing answers to the questions of participants..
During the 8th Session - 5th class of kartRutvAdhikaraNaM, Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri covered sutra's 6 through 9 of kartRutvAdhikaranaM quoting from Teekas, Tippanis of Shri Trivikrama Pandita, Shri Teekacharya, Shri Vadiraja Teertha & Shri Raghavendra Teertha. The session was kind of interactive towards the end where Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri gave a chance to participants to ask questions. He provided convincing answers to the questions of participants. Prasanna Krishna requested Shri Keshava Rao to cover other topics related to Jiva KartRutva Vichara like Datta Svatantrya & others. Shri Keshava Rao gladly agreed to that and mentioned that he would dedicate next class to last sutra of KartRutvAdhikaraNaM & Datta Svatantrya and the class after that to Q & A. He said he would pose questions that are commonly heard of to himself and answer them.
During the 9th Session - 6th class of kartRutvAdhikaraNaM, Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri covered gist of first 9 sutras before starting sutra 10. As usual Shri Keshava Rao did justice by covering sutra 10 with supporting vyAkhynas from stalwarts in the lineage of Acharya Shri Madhwa. The session was interactive towards the end where Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri gave a chance to participants to ask questions. Major part of Q & A was dedicated to the padya from Shri Harikathamrutasara - Shri BimbaparokSha Sandhi - Padya "mukta biMbanu turiya jIvanmukta biMbanu vishva......". Shri Keshava Rao gladly agreed to take the discussion further to the next class. He also agreed to cover Datta Svatantrya topic among others.
During the 10th Session - 7th class of kartRutvAdhikaraNaM, Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri provided some details of what was covered in 10 sutras + continued the discussion from the previous class picking up the padya from Shri Harikathamrutasara - Shri Bimbaparoksha Sandhi - Padya "mukta biMbanu turiya jIvanmukta biMbanu vishva.......". Further he covered few details of Datta Svatantrya. Followed by this, there was an elaborate Q & A session. Shri Keshava Rao as usual provided convincing answers to all the questions posed by participants. He further gave liberty to the participants to send questions to him through mail and that he would gladly provide answers.
With this class, we came to a logical conclusion of kartRutvAdhikaraNaM. All the participants whole-heartedly thanked Shri Keshava Rao for his time. It is note-worthy that Shri Keshava Rao conducted these classes very late in the night (EST) for him to accommodate SVBM members who are in PST time frame. This contribution of his and more importantly the detailed coverage of the entire topic is highly commendable and SVBM members are highly indebted to him in particular and to Smt. Meera TadipatriJi and his children too.
We look forward to having more such discourses from Shri Keshava Rao and many other scholars in future.
During the 11th Session - 1st class after the information filled kartRutvAdhikaraNaM classes of Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri, SVBM members revisited some portions of lectures of kartRutvAdhikaraNaM to understand the concepts in better depth. They also read out kartRutvAdhikaraNaM sutras from the book on Shri Brahmasutra by Shri Santebidanur Bheemasenacharya, a renowed tatvavada scholar. Having heard and discussed the sutras again, the members came up with a set of questions seeking answers from Shri Keshava Rao. Shri Keshava Rao kindly agreed to answer the questions in another session scheduled for 12th July, 2008. The questions sent out to Shri Keshava Rao are as follows:
1. Is paradhina kartrutva only a theoritical aspect? What is its use in real life?
2. Is Paradhina Kartrutva same as NO Kartrutva?
3. A person who is vyAtopAsaka need not follow the vidhi/nishEdha? They are not bound to follow the rules as prescribed by shAstrAs? Is this statement correct?
4. So the actual nishEdha is 'thinking that I (jIva) am the doer (as having PK also)'?
5. Vidhi & nishEdha is only a binding tool to initiate the jIva in the sAtvika path during the initial stages of sAdhana. (Example: a learner of swimming ties a tube around him but once he learns swimming tube is not required). Once a sAdhaka procures correct knowledge and starts practising it, it does not have much value since the jIva will attribute everything to shrI hari?
6. Prasanna's father gave the example of shrI Wayi Krishnacharyaru who did not even do darshana of Lord ShrinivAsa being at Tirumala hills for 4 days? So, didn't this become a nishEdha in the loukika sense?
7. Sutra # 38, bhAshya is saying 'alpa'.. why say 'alpa' instead of 'na-shakti'
8. AnAdi karma is based on what & does it get accumulated till jIva gets to sRujyAvasta? Does it also mean that Jiva has infinite karma (anantha)? Or is there some # of units of karma that has been attached to jIva? What is the shAstra vakya to prove or dis-prove this?
9. If we assume PK for jIva, what next? Just follow vidhi/nishEdha or something else?
10. Does vidhi/nishEdha enable sAdhane or is it a hindrance?
11. Shastradhara for only 1 indriya of svarUpa being active at one point (Quoted by Shri Keshava Rao during one of his lectures)
12. Shastradhara for single indriya but multiple indriya shaktis in svarupa (Quoted by Shri Keshava Rao during one of his lectures)
13. Shastradhara for vyApara of svarUpa manas during asRujyAvasta (Quoted by Shri Keshava Rao during one of his lectures)
14. Shastradhara for 'mutka biMbanu jIva....' padya to indicate that what it means is not what it is.
Week 12: 13th July, 2008 ::
During the 12th Session - Shri Keshava Rao Tadipatri answered all the questions listed above. This session was clubbed with satsanga session of East Coast Madhwa Bandhus. He gave convincing answers to most of the questions. He also allowed participants to ask further questions based on the answers provided. The discussion between Shri Keshava Rao & Prasanna continued for well over 1/2 an hour on the importance of Karmacharana & Jnana aspects. Further to this, Shri Harish Vasudeva had couple of questions for which Shri Keshava Rao provided the answers.
